Windows 8 Ships 100 Millionth License

Post by trog @ 04:06pm 07/05/13 | 81 Comments

Microsoft have revealed today that they've now shipped over 100 million licenses for Windows 8:

Tami Reller:We recently surpassed the 100 million licenses sold mark for Windows 8. This number includes Windows licenses that ship on a new tablet or PC, as well as upgrades to Windows 8. This is up from the 60 million license number we provided in January. We’ve also seen the number of certified devices for Windows 8 and Window RT grow to 2,400 devices, and we’re seeing more and more touch devices in the mix.

While the sales figures are pretty impressive, the controversial operating system doesn't appear to have gained a lot of traction amongst traditional Windows users, many arguing that the "tabletisation" of the operating system has made it more frustrating to use.

I thought it'd be interesting to see how Windows 8 usage had grown amongst visitors of AusGamers so had a quick look in our Google Analytics. It looks like visitor numbers are in the are of low thousands, but there hasn't been a really significant increase in the several months since it launched - here's a graph showing the number of visits:

This matches with what we've heard from other gamers, in that few of them have seen a compelling reason to upgrade from Windows 7. However, the Steam hardware survey - probably the best data for the PC gaming industry - shows Windows 8 at 10.86% and climbing slowly.

Now we're a few months down the track it'd be great to get some feedback from Windows 8 gamers to see what they think of the new OS after they've had a chance to get to know it for a while - let us know what you think in the comments.

microsoft windows 7 windows 8

Latest Comments

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trog
Posted 04:10pm 07/5/13

I've been running Windows 8 since launch and haven't really been bothered by it to the same capacity as others. The Metro interface bugs me once when I reboot my PC and then I pretty much never see it because I'm in desktop mode all the time.

I use Launchy for application launching and have for ages so the lack of the start menu doesn't bother me at all either. I actually think the new method of app launching is probably fine for the vast majority of Windows users, but can totally see how it would irritate the hell out of hardcore PC people who just want things to work like they always did.

I'm coming from XP so the learning curve for me was probably a lot greater - there's a bunch of stuff that is completely new to me anyway. For my work stuff there's certainly no compelling reason for me to have upgraded from XP (I only got Windows 8 because it was part of a new PC purchase, replacing my five year old desktop).

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Strik3r
Posted 04:10pm 07/5/13

Using windows 8, all seems good. Little bit quicker than 7 to boot, and in general responsiveness is a bit snappier. As far as gaming goes its been fine, and I have no problems with the interface. I don't use metro a whole lot, but it acts as a launcher for my common apps. Anything else I just use it pretty much like the w7 start and have no problems.

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Eorl
Posted 04:15pm 07/5/13

Moving from XP to Windows Vista to Windows 7 and now Windows 8, I'd have to say the change isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I've found it to be a lot faster on my Intel SSD, the file system changes when copying/deleting or moving are a favourable change and just general snappiness.

I can see where the "tabletisation" hate has come from, with the fairly walled-off app store but even then I've barely looked at it since installing Windows 8 onto my desktop. I use Pokki for my boot to desktop and "start menu" style look, however I still fine the use of the larger Windows menu a lot nicer.

Overall, if you are happy with Windows 7 there is no real bother to moving, but if you want every little grain of performance boosting I'd suggest Windows 8 with a start menu altering program. Windows 8.1 is said to be giving back the start menu, but only in the sense that you still get greeted with the giant start menu when clicking it.

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reload!
Posted 04:32pm 07/5/13

probably not going out of business any time soon ;/

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shad
Posted 04:45pm 07/5/13

Been using windows 8 since it first came out. I was never sure why people hated the start menu so much.

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parabol
Posted 04:51pm 07/5/13

I was fizzling in frustration the first time I booted into Win8. Tiles + not knowing how to browse my PC/applications + not knowing how to bloody shut down the PC without using the power button! Hell, even though apple products were completely alien and new to me, they are mostly intuitive. The Win8 UI is not!

Then I got caught out by the default quick shutdown. Win8 crashed when I put a new NIC in, since the old kernel image was quick-loaded on the next boot as it had no idea how to handle a sudden hardware appearance. Apparently you have to drop into a command line to execute a clean, proper shutdown. gg.

The core of the OS is normally excellent and stable, but let down by the horrific UI and default options.

Seriously Microsoft .. what are you doing? When a large number of your users are actively paying for replacement UI addons (start menu replacement software), it's a clear sign you're doing something wrong.

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kos
Posted 06:32pm 07/5/13

Windows 8 still bugs the hell out of me for two main reasons that I've expressed on here in previous threads:

1. The entire metro interface is designed for fingers and small touchscreens, not 24+ inch widescreen monitors and keyboard and mouse. You can't even have 2 metro apps take up the screen 50/50, even on a 30" monitor (I know 8.1 is fixing this by adding 50/50, but I assume you still can't just split the screen wherever you want).

2. The whole user interface gives the feeling of being completely half baked, with half your settings in one UI and half in another and the UIs overlapping awkwardly somewhere in the middle.

Windows 8 with the option for either the classic start menu or the new start screen or both and basically Stardock's ModernMix is how I think Microsoft should have solved the "push people to create and use metro apps on desktop PC's as well" question.
I also see no reason why they couldn't put all of the Control Panel in both UI types.

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Focumba
Posted 05:18pm 07/5/13

I upgraded from an eight year old install of XP to 8 when MS had the cheap upgrade offer.

It works well enough. The two changes I've made is a direct boot to the desktop and a shut down button on the desktop.

Works well.

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thermite
Posted 05:24pm 07/5/13

All those people bought it, doesn't mean they like it. I bought it, and it is really just a pain compared to win 7.

I have a start menu replacement, but annoyingness still occurs, such as two instances of skype running, one in desktop which receives messages instantly and one in metro which receives messages with a several minute delay, lol.

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Tollaz0r!
Posted 05:37pm 07/5/13

I've been using windows 8 since around January or something.

At first I was annoyed by the metro thing, then I realized that I spend 99.9% of my time in desktop mode so it isn't really that big a deal.

I like some of the new features and hate some of the others. Luckily for Windows 8 it doesn't get in the way of gaming.

Performance wise I'm very happy with it, it is boots very quickly and is snappy to use, even 5 months in.

I did get a SSD at the same time as installing Windows 8, so part of that snappyness and boot time I should attribute to the SSD.

All in all, I have no reason to go back to Windows 7 and at the same time have little reason to convince others to change to Windows 8. Maybe one day I'll look at tested benchmark figures.

I also muchly like the new copy interface.

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skythra
Posted 05:47pm 07/5/13

I did 6 runs of Batman arkham city on windows 7 and windows 8 dual booting. I found windows 7 was slightly faster. Im talking only 5% faster in average fps. But still, hardly a compelling reason even if it was the other way around. I'm sure drivers by now might have reversed it but the overall impact on fps in game seems to be hardware :P

I should install it again, but i found that with 3 montiors the metro interface annoyed me. I mean i wouldn't even use it much, but i launch nearly 100% of my programs and files from typing the first couple of words into the start search menu on 7, all my configuration comes from the start search menu (ie "power options" "windows update" "activate windows" "windows firewall" etc). The metro interface showing up for each of those seems like a kick in the nut.

But i'm not that familiar with it so i shouldn't complain.

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Whoop
Posted 05:57pm 07/5/13

I, and others with pre-installed laptops, have this major issue where it can take as long as half an hour or even an entire afternoon in my case, just to reboot. It's not as bad if you turn off that hybrid shutdown thing they use but even that doesn't 100% fix it.

The problem is that when you want to reboot, sometimes windows will come up with a "configuring your windows, do not turn off your computer" message and it can sit at 15% for hours. I ran disk cleanup and I'm pretty sure that's what triggered it last time, the laptop took 2 days to reboot. I really wish I was kidding.

The exact trigger is unknown, sometimes I can reboot all night and it only takes a few seconds then the next day it'll hang there for an hour or two while it does "something".

I'm going to keep using it as long as it works because I'm lazy but the first sign of needing to format, windows 8 is going in the proverbial bin and I'm putting windows 7 back on there.

Combine that with some older programs not liking UAC and when you disable UAC (which I do anyway, first thing after a format it goes bye bye) some other stuff in windows breaks.

It really doesn't feel like MS thought their plan all the way through. Windows 8 feels like they've seen tablets doing well & thought hey lets get in on this s***, thrown a bunch of new UI elements together in W7, renamed it to W8 and gone yep here you go. There may be more going on under the hood but the entire thing just doesn't feel finished. Feels like I'm using a buggy as hell beta release.

I also muchly like the new copy interface.

Probably the one thing about W8 I actually like too.

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Hogfather
Posted 05:57pm 07/5/13

Win8 here since launch, happy with it overrall.

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skythra
Posted 06:00pm 07/5/13

Oh yeah, there was also that issue with internet explorer 10 and downloading to network locations reaching 100% and then not renaming the part file to the proper file name.

Doesn't happen all the time either, just randomly. I noticed that on a clients computer the other day, manually renaming the file of course fixes it and runs fine.. which is just odd.

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mooby
Posted 07:12pm 07/5/13

i tried it, even as a media centre pc.

i had to pay $10 for mc which is identical to win 7, so why did i pay that?

using it as an os, i just hit pain. no benifits, just lots of pain.

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tspec
Posted 07:32pm 07/5/13

I use Win8 on my HTPC and my work laptop. Generally speaking no issues, just some very minor things that pop up from time to time like on my work laptop not having Win8 drivers available for my USB to Serial adapter for connecting to cisco gear. I have a Win7 VM on my laptop for things like that though.

I haven't upgraded my gaming machine yet but I'll go to Win8 when I upgrade to Haswell when it becomes available.

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Whoop
Posted 07:40pm 07/5/13

Oh yeah, there was also that issue with internet explorer 10 and downloading to network locations reaching 100% and then not renaming the part file to the proper file name.Doesn't happen all the time either, just randomly. I noticed that on a clients computer the other day, manually renaming the file of course fixes it and runs fine.. which is just odd.

Might be the network connection timing out thing. I remember way back in like windows 98 or xp or something there was a "tweak" where you told it not to time out network drives. That way the next time you clicked on it after a little while of inactivity it'd open up instantly instead of having to re-establish the connection. I'm guessing that network share timeout issue still exists.

i had to pay $10 for mc which is identical to win 7, so why did i pay that?

That's another thing, I keep going and trying to use things I use quite commonly in windows 7 only to find they don't exist in windows 8 unless I upgrade to pro or ultimate or whatever the hell the "good" version is. I shouldn't have to upgrade windows just to get the bloody policy editor ffs.

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Jabroney
Posted 07:40pm 07/5/13

ive been using since launch and think its fine

it is definitely snappier than windows 7. copying files is improved. overall performance is better.

i dont have any big gripes with the metro system, i think it was necessary for microsoft/windows to bring in and combine touch optimisation as well as a app store.

for those hating the metro screen/loss of start button, they will more then likely be bringing back the option in the next big update "windows blue"

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fpot
Posted 07:43pm 07/5/13

so part of that snappyness and boot time I should attribute to the SSD.

Replace 'part' with 'all'.

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Whoop
Posted 07:47pm 07/5/13

If you can't wait, install this: http://www.classicshell.net/
Turn on the option to skip the metrosexual screen and boot straight to desktop. You gets you some start menu action similar to xp / 7 and get to skip the useless-as-sunblock-on-the-sun metro interface.

Replace 'part' with 'all'.

No. Windows 8 uses a hybrid shutdown feature which is really just hibernating it when you shut down. That way the next time you start up it just loads from the hibernation file.

I've since disabled that to get around the issues I mentioned earlier and it does make one hell of a difference in boot times.

When you're actually in windows though, yeah that's probably all SSD. I've got mine on a 7400rpm drive and it's still pretty abysmally slow (but I'm used to my SSD enabled PC)

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3x0dus
Posted 07:54pm 07/5/13

probably 99 million of those copies where before they removed the $15/$30 copies and bumped it upto $150.

Fail move.

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parabol
Posted 08:07pm 07/5/13

No. Windows 8 uses a hybrid shutdown feature which is really just hibernating it when you shut down. That way the next time you start up it just loads from the hibernation file.

Close, but not entirely correct. It hibernates the kernel, not the entire userspace / ram. This allows a super-fast shutdown as there's not much to save.

My system with SSD, where "Boot" means time between end of BIOS info through to Win8 login screen appearing:

Full shutdown Boot = 8 sec
Reboot Boot = 6 sec
Hybrid shutdown Boot: = 4 sec

This is without UEFI too. You'll barely notice the difference between these three shutdown modes anyway with a modern SSD:

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Hogfather
Posted 08:15pm 07/5/13

probably 99 million of those copies where before they removed the $15/$30 copies and bumped it upto $150.

Fail move.

I guess you think they are bald-faced lying?

This is up from the 60 million license number we provided in January

Sounds like the fail move was not taking advantage of the launch discount to me!

100M since launch is basically the Windows7 sales rate. That's not bad considering how positively 7 was received and how many people were upgrading from XP, skipping Vista.

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koopz
Posted 08:14pm 07/5/13

I can honestly say that we've not had a single Win8 virus issue (yet) here in Brissie or SE Qld cross my desk..

I do feel sorry for those soft. engys out there who aren't MS Certed though. Crunch time is here lads.. get with it or hire a kid you can manipulate into doing all your work for you and hope he's not smart enough to figure out you should be working for him..

on that note.. hello Obes

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mental
Posted 08:17pm 07/5/13

They have had made lots of little changes, you probably wont notice unless you're looking for them. The way text is displayed has been reworked, on high resolutions on big monitors you can just see scrolling text is easier on the eyes. Pitied things like that. Shame they didn't expand the right click start menu, so you could go how you want.

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konstie
Posted 08:42pm 07/5/13

i'm running a pretty old rig - e8400 core 2 duo i think - and windows 8 runs really well on it. no complaints from me.

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mooby
Posted 09:04pm 07/5/13

i just bought a mac pro instead. be a while before i go back to windows for non dev stuff

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mental
Posted 09:21pm 07/5/13

I got a treatable std, instead of a course of antibiotics and some cream I chopped my D*** off. Jest.

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koopz
Posted 09:27pm 07/5/13

nothing wrong with a Mac

they're computers for kiddies and marketing types who know nothing about computers

we need more kids to get interested in IT nowadays.. computers 'aren't cool' anymore :(

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trog
Posted 09:36pm 07/5/13

they're computers for kiddies and marketing types who know nothing about computers

except it's 2013 and the fact that they're actually really nice Unix-based machines on which real people do real work all the time has sort of shattered that stale old meme. I'm as gung-ho PC as they come and even I don't believe that any more.

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Eorl
Posted 09:52pm 07/5/13

Just look at how many games on Kickstarter or Steam are offering Mac versions of their game and you can easily tell it is no longer a machine that is just useful for photoshop.

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Hogfather
Posted 10:18pm 07/5/13

I'm a Windows guy and I'm really happy with the success of android, OSX and iOS!

There's never been a better time to be a windows dev thanks to all the innovation and competition :) We've even seen MS genuinely playing nice with the OSS community in a collaborative and non-takeover way, to the point where s*** like GitHub looks like its gonna find its way into vs express soon..

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Deviouz
Posted 11:10pm 07/5/13

I love win8 since launch,some ppl hate change.

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infi
Posted 11:22pm 07/5/13

Windows 8 drives me insane.

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Morbz
Posted 12:56am 08/5/13

Windows 8 is my best mate :D

- Seems smoother than win 7 64bit ( balances system / network resources well)
- Love the new task manager and control panel feel (a lot more automated diagnostics and tools)
- Media, File, Print sharing is easier and appears to work smoother over your home network
- Windows defender now packs a punch rah! http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=6624

My 5 cents worth

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kos
Posted 02:33am 08/5/13

some ppl hate change.

While that is true, you shouldn't use it to summarily dismiss people with genuine concerns over something like the obvious shortcomings of shoehorning a mobile/touchscreen-oriented user interface into a desktop PC operating system.

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Mosfx
Posted 07:13am 08/5/13

I don't mind Win8 when you get it all set up it works well.

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trog
Posted 09:08am 08/5/13

While that is true, you shouldn't use it to summarily dismiss people with genuine concerns over something like the obvious shortcomings of shoehorning a mobile/touchscreen-oriented user interface into a desktop PC operating system.

But what are those concerns? I was worried about that too but it has had zero effect on me. I'm always slightly startled when I reboot my PC and see the Metro interface because whenever I'm using my PC it is nowhere to be seen.

I can imagine the start button thing being a big deal for people but I haven't used the Start Button to launch anything since I discovered Launchy (which I still use on Win7/8; it's better than the 'run' option available through Metro or the start button) so it has had zero impact on me.

Everything else is basically identical to Windows 7 from my point of view.

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Hogfather
Posted 09:33am 08/5/13

Yeh I'm not sure what the concerns are, I guess if you use a lot of Metro apps you'd be upset. I just ~~CTRL+D~~ WIN+D when I log in and its as good or better than 7.

I hope they don't bring back the old start menu (or make it optional if they do). I actually prefer the new, it works the same for me as the old (win key, few keystrokes of the application I want, enter) and live tiles are nice :)

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redhat
Posted 09:27am 08/5/13

Been running it at home since launch, I like it's super fast boot and new file copy bar/sexy throughput graph that doesn't try to cheat you.

Also it is heaps easier to manage startup services and crap that my missus installs on her laptop.

Windows 8 is a winner I reckon.

For those that b**** about the start bar, seriously?
Here's a tip: put favourite browser somewhere easy to find on the tile page.
Press it when it boots up. Pin all programs you like to use to the task bar. Problem solved.
If you don't have all the programs you like to frequently use pinned to the task bar or don't use windowkey-r you're probably bad and should just stick to windows 7 forever.

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trog
Posted 09:32am 08/5/13

it works the same for me as the old (win key, few keystrokes of the application I want, enter) and live tiles are nice :)

If you like that you should try Launchy - I find it behaves more useful and more predictably (and its easier to configure than the Windows one, which I found useless/confusing).

Do you mean win-D instead of ctrl-D?

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Hogfather
Posted 09:33am 08/5/13

sorry yeh win+d, will try out launchy too :)

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kos
Posted 09:49am 08/5/13

But what are those concerns?

For me it's the things that drag you into metro whether you like it or not. Basic things like starting apps and searching that force you into the start screen (and on top of that they can't even have one screen for all search results) and all the settings that are now only in the "PC Settings" metro app.

For instance, when I want to connect a new Bluetooth device (which I'll admit I probably do more than normal users) I have to go into a stupidly massive full screen app designed for fat fingers, awkwardly do what I want in that, then drag the cursor from the top of the screen to the bottom just to close the app, then it's still another point and click back to the desktop. It's just pointlessly and irritatingly awkward.

I know I could install something like Start8 and ModernMix to alleviate these issues but these 3rd party solutions never feel as polished and responsive as native O/S functions. And to be honest, I think requiring 3rd party programs that have to run permanently in the background just to perform basic O/S functions is just s***, especially when I can just go back to Windows 7.

For me, 7 felt like Microsoft's first version of Windows that had a truly consistent and polished user interface, Windows 8 just feels like a major step back from that.

In the end Windows 8 as a desktop PC O/S just feels to me like a half baked solution to the question "How do we fight Apple and the iPad in the mobile space when we're already so far behind?" It just feels like a vessel through which they're trying to force people to create a well populated mobile ecosystem for them.

For those that b**** about the start bar, seriously?
Here's a tip: put favourite browser somewhere easy to find on the tile page.
Press it when it boots up. Pin all programs you like to use to the task bar. Problem solved.
If you don't have all the programs you like to frequently use pinned to the task bar or don't use windowkey-r you're probably bad and should just stick to windows 7 forever.

If you think that opening a web browser as the first action every time you turn on or log into your PC is a good solution to a UI problem then it is actually you who is bad, very bad.

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parabol
Posted 09:49am 08/5/13

For those that b**** about the start bar, seriously?
Here's a tip: put favourite browser somewhere easy to find on the tile page.

The compact, vertically listed, textual with small icon start menu entries are much more efficient for me than a distracting full-screen program selector with large tiles. You can rightclick in the metro page to switch the applications to list view and make it more compact, but I can't seem to make that sticky - otherwise I may have tried it out more.

The metro full-screen menu is more efficient for you?

That's fine. Microsoft should have kept the option for BOTH interfaces so that the user can choose which suits their usage the best. There's no technical reason for them having taken that option away - it's not like a massively dependent internal kernel feature that could only go one way or the other, it's a bloody UI!

I compare this to Blizzard focusing on the AH and letting all their decisions revolve around it at the expense of their customers. Eventually when Microsoft gets over the "App" bandwagon, maybe they'll start making sane decisions again.

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trog
Posted 09:49am 08/5/13

kos, fair enough - I haven't had any of those issues after the first few weeks when I changed file associations etc. I completely agree that the full screen apps are absolutely idiotic - I'd actually completely forgotten about them because they were one of the first things that I changed (haha, how bad is the default image viewer and PDF viewer).

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Hogfather
Posted 09:51am 08/5/13

kos, have you posted your feedback to MS at all? Not being a snarky c*** but they need this info. Its possible to improve the Desktop behaviour for regularly performed actions - for example wi-fi settings while Metro'd don't require you to leave the Desktop.

trog - tried launchy ... meh? Looks like you need to use a 2-key combination to start it. alt+space+type is harder than win+type..!

It also doesn't seem to be able to find my s*** for some reason

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redhat
Posted 09:53am 08/5/13

If you think that opening a web browser as the first action every time you turn on or log into your PC is a good solution to a UI problem then it is actually you who is bad, very bad.

What do you do 99% of the time when you first login? Open your encyclopedia britannia?

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kos
Posted 10:20am 08/5/13

I completely agree that the full screen apps are absolutely idiotic - I'd actually completely forgotten about them because they were one of the first things that I changed (haha, how bad is the default image viewer and PDF viewer).

Oh man, don't get me started on the default metro apps! I was actually looking forward to using them on my HTPC because I expected the UI concept to actually work on a big screen TV (and it really does), but then I actually tried to use the Video and Music apps and found they were basically just absolute bare bones functionality obscured behind portals for you to pay Microsoft for more content. Seems like a common theme of Windows 8: business first, UX second.

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Hogfather
Posted 10:02am 08/5/13

Hah parabol still so f***en mad about windows 8.

Matey, is it Bex and a lie down time again?! :D

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kos
Posted 10:21am 08/5/13

kos, have you posted your feedback to MS at all? Not being a snarky c*** but they need this info. Its possible to improve the Desktop behaviour for regularly performed actions - for example wi-fi settings while Metro'd don't require you to leave the Desktop.

To be honest I never considered that anything I'm saying would be news to them, I mean a company as big as MS with a product as big as Windows must do exhaustive use case testing and the like, mustn't they? With all the 3rd party solutions to the metro problem they must be getting the message, whether they're willing to listen or not, do you really think it's worth giving them this feedback directly?

What do you do 99% of the time when you first login? Open your encyclopedia britannia?

On my desktop PC? Usually open up Steam or some game. That's what my desktop PC is mainly for, I can browse the web on basically anything including my HTPC, my laptop, my tablet and my smartphone. Either way, the solution you suggested is just an awkward workaround.

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Hogfather
Posted 11:15am 08/5/13

I get the system bluetooth etc settings in Metro are annoying, but can you elaborate on what's giving you grief in the normal computer operation s*** (starting games, steam etc)?

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Opec
Posted 11:31am 08/5/13

So has the post PC era started?

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skythra
Posted 11:47am 08/5/13

So has the post PC era started?

Honestly, i think it has in some ways, because of these new ways to enjoy content many people like my parents just don't need a PC. My father has a laptop for occasional contract work he does with DoD but otherwise they use iPads and consume internet the same way as they consume TV. Watching it.

I can't give up my computer but i don't use it like i used to. It's now literally for games and work. I do a bit of youtube watching during games, but not as much as you'd think. A lot of my youtube comes from my HTPC/TV (for my subscriptions to day9 etc) and the rest happens on my tablet.

Actually oddly the one other thing that's changed is i've stopped consuming as much content on my mobile, i use it purely as the gateway for communication (with about 8 different communication apps, from phonecalls to emails and messengers). Occasionally onsite it's useful to be able to google, but most of the time a hotspot setup for my tablet is easier.

PC will never die. There's never going to be some way to replace some things it does well; mostly the power user functions of creating and gaming. I don't think you'll hear someone say "I just managed to create this great animation on my tablet" anytime soon, or "I just rendered a whole movie". Although my phone did do a format conversion from an 720p avi to a 480p mp4 that a iphone could watch so i could send a clip to someone which i thought was pretty cool...

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Opec
Posted 12:02pm 08/5/13

Honestly, i think it has in some ways, because of these new ways to enjoy content many people like my parents just don't need a PC. My father has a laptop for occasional contract work he does with DoD but otherwise they use iPads and consume internet the same way as they consume TV. Watching it.I can't give up my computer but i don't use it like i used to. It's now literally for games and work. I do a bit of youtube watching during games, but not as much as you'd think. A lot of my youtube comes from my HTPC/TV (for my subscriptions to day9 etc) and the rest happens on my tablet. Actually oddly the one other thing that's changed is i've stopped consuming as much content on my mobile, i use it purely as the gateway for communication (with about 8 different communication apps, from phonecalls to emails and messengers). Occasionally onsite it's useful to be able to google, but most of the time a hotspot setup for my tablet is easier.PC will never die. There's never going to be some way to replace some things it does well; mostly the power user functions of creating and gaming. I don't think you'll hear someone say "I just managed to create this great animation on my tablet" anytime soon, or "I just rendered a whole movie". Although my phone did do a format conversion from an 720p avi to a 480p mp4 that a iphone could watch so i could send a clip to someone which i thought was pretty cool...

I agreed with most of what you said, though seems to me you're saying people habit for interacting with their non-work related "PC" has changed because of better improved mobile devices tech.

I will disagree on the bit about being able to only consumed contents on tablets is strictly only for iOS/Android devices, since Windows 8 actually is a full fledged desktop OS you can technically do what you want on it given enough processor and memory which I think Intel is doing something about that so I expect for the Wintel tablets to be fore more "useful" for creating content and people will discover better use cases for their tablet - probably more like notebook. If anything the notebook will be what suffer the most from this really. Less and less people are carrying notebooks and more tablet style devices, not many people will give up their desktops from the pure productivity point of view.

IMO I think MS made the right move to have one code base for both mobile devices and desktop, I think their "mistake" was that they assumed the use cases for _all_ platforms are the same and consequently they unify the UI which basically polarised the opinions on whether Windows 8 is a success say compare to Windows 7 - clearly from the data it is really not as dire as some "tech" analysts (ok bloggers who am I kidding) predicted that the iOS/Android would decimate Windows desktop.

Exciting times ahead for MS for sure :)

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Hogfather
Posted 12:05pm 08/5/13

Yeh they have some work to do with the unification, but its a good call for lots of reasons.

Looking at a hardware refresh in a couple months for the office and damn hybrids are f*****g sexy.

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kos
Posted 07:51am 09/5/13

I get the system bluetooth etc settings in Metro are annoying, but can you elaborate on what's giving you grief in the normal computer operation s*** (starting games, steam etc)?

It's not like my gripes are over issues that actually stop me achieving the tasks I want to achieve, it's just that everything you want to do is so inconsistent, pushing you between two contrasting UI styles for no reason whatsoever.

For instance when I boot up the PC it goes straight to the Start Screen, if I load a game or Steam from there then it pushes me to the Desktop and leaves me there, then if I want to search for something or open a program that isn't pinned to the taskbar I get pushed back to Metro. The entire O/S just feels so schizophrenic, for lack of a better word.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the Metro interface in and of itself, on devices where I think it actually makes sense – such as Windows 8 tablets and HTPC's – I have the same gripe in the opposite direction. I think it's stupid that for no good reason you're dragged to the desktop for file exploring and basic functions like the notepad and calculator.

To me they are just two completely different UIs that are best suited to certain situations/devices and it doesn't seem like it would be prohibitively difficult to allow users to choose between the two UIs as an overarching O/S option.

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Hogfather
Posted 08:14am 09/5/13

Yeh nothing to say then, I've never been bothered by the s*** you're upset about.

I don't really care if the start menu is in metro or not, the f***en thing works. Each to their own.

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kos
Posted 09:01am 09/5/13

That's the thing though, the f***en thing worked before, all they did was try and force a less suitable and less consistent user experience over the top of it.

It's fine that people are either not encountering or not being bothered by the issues that I have – I'm just expressing my own opinion and certainly not saying that other people shouldn't use Windows 8 – it definitely has some great improvements under the hood, but you'd have to be kidding yourself to say that Windows 8 presented a consistent, polished and well thought out user experience.

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eski
Posted 09:48am 09/5/13

I agree Kos, I refuse to get it for work because it will mean retraining staff. I dont care what people say, the interface is NOT intuitive, especially if you've only used Windows PCs in the past. All the employees I've sat down at our demo station have struggled to do simple things that they already know how to do.

If you don't have a bunch of tech savvy users at your business, I can't see this being a quick or cost effective transition.

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mental
Posted 09:51am 09/5/13

On the metro screen if you hit enter without anything selected it opens the top left tile. So when I type my password I hit enter twice and chrome opens up with my homepage and I'm good to go, nearly instant. When on the desktop I use the right click start menu (which I use more than I used the start menu in 7 before..) adding win-x extended which I've added a couple of use all the time apps which I don't have pinned to the taskbar (I don't like the taskbar cluttered). I changed the defaults for the picture viewing and what not. So things really didn't change much for me except a couple of refinements,I guess I used the start menu how people were shown to use it while they were developing. Needs a lot more polish though, so I'll be interested in the next version to see which way they go.

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Hogfather
Posted 11:40am 09/5/13

That's the thing though, the f***en thing worked before, all they did was try and force a less suitable and less consistent user experience over the top of it.It's fine that people are either not encountering or not being bothered by the issues that I have – I'm just expressing my own opinion and certainly not saying that other people shouldn't use Windows 8 – it definitely has some great improvements under the hood, but you'd have to be kidding yourself to say that Windows 8 presented a consistent, polished and well thought out user experience.

Yeh, its a bridge though, and they're working on refining the experience for Desktop with Blue.

I just don't get all the angst about it, especially such an ephemeral and abrstract whine (sorry thats harsh, but its a whine) as 'unified ui experience'. Lighten up hombre, at least they are innovating, and you can always just stay on 7..

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skythra
Posted 01:19pm 09/5/13

I will disagree on the bit about being able to only consumed contents on tablets is strictly only for iOS/Android devices, since Windows 8 actually is a full fledged desktop OS you can technically do what you want on it given enough processor and memory

Just for the record: Just because it runs windows doesn't mean it's instantly a content creator

With that theory, my android asus transformer with 16 hours of batteryis a fully fledged laptop because i run RDP to a server and the server can do far more than your windows 8 battery limited, atom with at best 8 hours battery.

But i'd call that an outlier. No one wants to create a 25 page contract on a couch. The first couple of hours might have seemed like a good idea, but within a half day you'll be in too much pain from holding your arms up at weird angles with your back half parallel to the ground. Go to a desk with chair keyboard mouse and monitor and the PC is cheaper again.

So yeah you can create content on a tablet, but people don't. Why? Technically they're not limited. Except by their bodied and a strange infatuation with cost effectiveness. If your job is spent creating content 40 hours a week, it's better done at a PC because it's cheaper at a desk.

Also almost any content is going to be created at a workstation with better specs than:

edit: I wanted to stay away from the fight between windows having all widows apps to do stuff that you already do when anyone who's spent any time looking on android\ios would easily be repeating back "What content are you trying to create, that you can actually do on your underpowered device, which doesn't already have an app in the app store or google play".

Docments, files, emails, all able to be done on android. Once you get into more powerful programs all platforms fall down.

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Opec
Posted 01:47pm 09/5/13

^^^ Funny we should bring up all of this eg content creation on tablet etc and whether Surface PC pro could be use like this for some serious content creation by professional white collar workers (like you and I) in the current APC Magazine.

They tested this on the following types of users, office works, graphic artist, music producers, video editing (for real) and surprisingly? For most of them, they could see that they can use them for content creation on the tablet. The problem was only the music edition software was hard to use on small screen since it's pretty packed full of dials and stuff anyway. The rest could actually see themselves using it in the field to create stuff when the ideas is fresh their minds before they go back and finish it off properly on their trusty desktops.

Certainly the census amongst the testers is that it is very productive a full desktop OS and therefore apps running on their tablets and not watered down OS like Windows RT, iOS, Android etc. So I guess MS has the right idea with the Windows 8's unify kernel across the platforms etc.

Intel's new chipset may address some of the performance issues but yeah for pure content creation and productivity there's no argument desktop wins.

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deeper
Posted 03:51pm 09/5/13

I have a legit copy of windows 7 I bought and it does the job fine. Not too concerned about upgrading due to the additional expense.

If it was a free upgrade I suppose I would go to the effort of installing it - or if they made it so only newer versions of directx worked in win8 I suppose that would force me to upgrade in the future.

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mental
Posted 04:05pm 09/5/13

They did say they weren't going to have new directx on 7, but that doesn't mean they won't. They've also said the new xbox will be running windows 8 core. Next direct x might be wrapped up with that? I'm not into consoles so I don't know sfa, but better porting between the two platforms does.

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kos
Posted 08:05pm 09/5/13

Yeh, its a bridge though, and they're working on refining the experience for Desktop with Blue.

I'd say it's a poorly thought out bridge, but honestly I think MS knew that it was far from ideal and were just trying to see how much they could get away with in trying to force people into Metro to try grow their mobile market space.

I am happy that they're "refining" the experience for 8.1 and will definitely give it a go, but the fact that many of the rumours of what is being changed are things that a pretty vocal group of people were pointing out well before the release of even the Consumer Preview speaks volumes I think.

I just don't get all the angst about it, especially such an ephemeral and abrstract whine (sorry thats harsh, but its a whine) as 'unified ui experience'. Lighten up hombre, at least they are innovating, and you can always just stay on 7..

Whether something is a whine or not is totally subjective. Of all the people on here you're one of the last I expected to have a genuine emotional investment in a company/product to the point where you take personal offence to someone pointing out obvious flaws.

The "whine" isn't even that abstract, there is a very clear disconnect between half the O/S being designed for keyboard and mouse and large screens and the other half being designed for fingers and touchscreens and small displays, with barely any attempt to integrate the two.

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Hogfather
Posted 07:44pm 09/5/13

Whether something is a whine or not is totally subjective. Of all the people on here you're one of the last I expected to have a genuine emotional investment in a company/product to the point where you take personal offence to someone pointing out obvious flaws.

Personal offense? Is this your first Hoggy rodeo kos? I called you hombre. We may as well be engaged now.

I was trying to help with any specific problems, I can't help with the vibe of the thing ;)

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Whoop
Posted 08:07pm 09/5/13

except it's 2013 and the fact that they're actually really nice Unix-based machines on which real people do real work all the time has sort of shattered that stale old meme. I'm as gung-ho PC as they come and even I don't believe that any more.

My brother is a die hard mac hater. I just keep reminding him they're nothing more than (overpriced) intel based laptops now. I love my old macbook pro.

If you think that opening a web browser as the first action every time you turn on or log into your PC is a good solution to a UI problem then it is actually you who is bad, very bad.

It's not like my gripes are over issues that actually stop me achieving the tasks I want to achieve, it's just that everything you want to do is so inconsistent, pushing you between two contrasting UI styles for no reason whatsoever.

For instance when I boot up the PC it goes straight to the Start Screen, if I load a game or Steam from there then it pushes me to the Desktop and leaves me there, then if I want to search for something or open a program that isn't pinned to the taskbar I get pushed back to Metro. The entire O/S just feels so schizophrenic, for lack of a better word.

This is how Vista felt to me and why I said earlier that W8 doesn't seem finished. It's like they changed some things to use the metro interface but others they left in the desktop interface.

Also whoever mentioned having to drag an app to close it: alt + f4 works on metrosexual apps.

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Tollaz0r!
Posted 04:04pm 11/5/13

Holy file hogging Batman.

So my other computer running Windows 8 has this mysterious HDD space eating Kraken. Slowly my C: fills up to something unknown.

After much investigating it turns out it is a broken windows process of somesort which builds up a MASSIVE amount of hidden system files in c:\windows\system32\config\drivers{*.regtrans-ms
I had about 45,000 files each 64kbit or 512kbit in size taking up roughly 10Gigs of space.

I just deleted them. Thank f*** this isn't happening to my SSD computer otherwise it would be an instant removal of Windows 8 unless it is fixed properly. There is a microsoft update that supposedly fixes it, however it doesn't seem to work for everyone.

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Tollaz0r!
Posted 04:04pm 11/5/13

Sorry, my mistake. It was roughly 26Gig's of space...

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Whoop
Posted 04:11pm 11/5/13

I have a few of those regtrans files in there but not a great deal. All up my config folder is about 231MB. Then again, I ran disk cleanup recently so that might have something to do with it.

http://windirstat.info/ <- good for finding out what's eating up space

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Tollaz0r!
Posted 04:15pm 11/5/13

windows clean up doesn't recognize them as dirty files to be cleaned. It doesn't affect most people. My other windows 8 computer is fine.

This computer is win 8, 32 bit. The other 64bit.

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Whoop
Posted 04:52pm 11/5/13

oic, well at least I'm not affected by it. I guess my windows thinks I've got enough issues with other s*** it does, it gave me a break from that one :)

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Hogfather
Posted 04:56pm 11/5/13

windows clean up doesn't recognize them as dirty files to be cleaned. It doesn't affect most people. My other windows 8 computer is fine.

This computer is win 8, 32 bit. The other 64bit.

Its happened to me before, I had a thread about it.

Went away eventually after an update IIRC

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Tollaz0r!
Posted 06:02pm 11/5/13

Yer I think the update has stopped it proliferating. At least for the moment.

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natslovR
Posted 08:42pm 11/5/13

After the terrible few days I had installing vista on launch I'm now prepared to wait a long time before moving to a new OS/version.

I don't have time to be fluffing around with my computer making it work, it needs to just work.

Not only do I consider there to be no compelling reasons to move to win8 I'm not aware of any reasons why I would want to.

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skythra
Posted 10:44pm 11/5/13

I'm one of probably the few that didn't have a bad vista experience oddly. I turned of UAC and disabled a few weird oddities and indexing and suddenly it was good enough. It came with a laptop so i only had issues for long enough to google. Once i fixed them all (around the second boot) i was right as rain.

But it was clear that windows 7 was more solid. Amazingly so. Although i still hate UAC. Luckily if you type 'uac' into the windows start search you can turn it off quickly.

I should be more open minded about windows 8 i just know that when they fiddle with consistency some more it'll come better. Maybe when windows 8.1 comes out i'll try and take a breath. i'm getting more used to it from exposure anyway.

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koopz
Posted 11:39pm 11/5/13

...it just needs to work

( or as I like to say - it needs to be "wife friendly" )

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Whoop
Posted 12:15am 12/5/13

I'm one of probably the few that didn't have a bad vista experience oddly. I turned of UAC and disabled a few weird oddities and indexing and suddenly it was good enough.

Same here. I thought it seemed kind of unfinished in the same way I find windows 8 to be unfinished (inconsistent menus, some in the new ui some in the windows xp style) but overall I liked vista. I even bought a legit copy of vista ultimate. I'll cut off my nuts and start wearing a skirt before I buy windows 8 though. I may revise my opinion after that windows blue thing comes out (or whatever the hell it is) but for the time being, windows 8 will be the very first edition of windows I do not own (not including minor revisions like se, a, b, c, etc) apart from Windows ME.

I actually have legit copies of windows 95, 98, XP, 2000, Vista and Windows 7. There you have it, I've lumped windows 8 in the same category of being as s***house as windows me. yep.

edit: in case someone goes howcome you're using w8 if you don't own it, I meant I never bought it from a store. W8 came installed on my laptop so technically I do own a legit license for it but not any physical media, unlike all the others for which I actually have the discs. I didn't willingly "buy" w8, it was forced upon me.

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skythra
Posted 09:48am 12/5/13

Windows blue is called windows 8.1. Only the internet dubbed it as windows blue. It's being released on tablets, pcs/laptops, phones all at the same time as 8.1

just a fyi

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Jboy
Posted 10:26am 12/5/13

The 100 Million number comes from new PC sales for the most part since pre built system hardly come with Win7 anymore. To me Win8 is like Win Vista, an OS to avoid. It may be faster than 7 and all but in the end it's feels unfinished and highly restrictive.

Win8 left a bad taste in my mouth since the consumer preview, If I installed this on my Dad's PC and told him "Dad you have to press Win Key + D to get your desktop" or "there's no start menu" He'll instantly ask me to install XP or 7 for him. My problem with Win8 isn't just the Metro but the whole way MS handled it, Metro was clearly designed for touchscreens and didn't even bother to give it's desktop users a toggle option to make both sides happy, the lack of a traditional start menu just adds insult to injury.

This story reminds me of when Ubuntu was the great and almighty Linux distro and how they ruined their rep by changing the desktop environment among other controversies.

TLDR: Windows XP is still very much usable and popular 12 years since release, W7 is slightly more than 3 years old now. I see no reason to make the switch unless one really needs that slightly better performance.

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