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Post by Dan @ 04:14pm 22/08/11 | 48 Comments
In case you didn't get enough technical inspiration from John Carmack's annual QuakeCon keynote and Q&A session, gamasutra have a new interview with the id Software programming legend, offering yet more insight into the development process of RAGE and id's Tech 5 engine.

Here's a few of the more interesting tid bits. On choosing running at 60FPS (on consoles) over prettier graphics at 30FPS:
But the key point is, people might argue pro and con relative to another game, we're running at two times the framerate of almost all the competition, and that's something that I'm really personally proud of, because that was a hard-fought battle internally. Because life is just easier when you've got 33 milliseconds instead of 16, but I think it matters. I think I could have made the game look better at 30 hertz. We could have had some more design freedom.

Why is that so important to you?

JC: It's that subtle feel of that... In fact, it's interesting; I did a number of experiments during this, where we say, "Okay. 60 is better than 30. Is 120 better than 60?" And I did some test cases on there, and interestingly, almost nobody can tell the difference between 120 and 60. A few people, like high-end professional gamers, can tell the difference.
When discussing why they no longer license their engine technology, he goes on to explain some of the limitations of id Tech 5 that tailored competitors can do better:
If you wanted to do the next Grand Theft Auto that had a city... It's too much surface area to MegaTexture everything at the level of detail that you want to do. If you want to do a game that's all about walking around with torches, our dynamic lighting approximations are not as good as you might want for something like that.
Closing out the interview are his thoughts on Nintendo development, with respect to the Wii and Wii-U:
Many, many years ago, we had negative experiences with Nintendo, but the only reason we're not doing anything with Nintendo now is just that the technologies are out of sync. It's a perfect opportunity to do PC, 360, PS3, but you couldn't have the same content base also targeting the Wii. But, you know, the new platform is probably just right there. It would probably be straightforward to target our stuff over there. It would depend on what the business case is for any of that.
RAGE is due on PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 on October 6th 2011. For more details, check out AusGamers recent interviews with id Software's Tim Willits and Todd Hollenshead.



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Latest Comments
Bikkies
Posted 10:23pm 22/8/11
But is a digital version of the game worth $90 for Aussies, even after all this?
Shaexen
Posted 11:33pm 22/8/11
Carmack for all his Brilliance cannot make a decent game. This game looks to me like its gonna be a flop.
gamer
Posted 07:55am 23/8/11
Carmack himself is already talking/hinting at quake 4 and how much better that's going to be in terms of multiplayer and engine resale... I think ID burnt themselves out on Rage and don't even really want to sell it... although they know they have to.
3dee
Posted 08:03am 23/8/11
Weren't there a heap of posts in this thread?
Raven
Posted 08:17am 23/8/11
Sadly I tend to agree it will flop, but it will flop the same way Quake 4 and Doom 3 flopped - craploads of people still bought them, simply because "ooh, it's id software's new game, gotta get that!". And then promptly found out they weren't worth playing for more than a few hours in contrast to Quake 3.
fpot
Posted 08:21am 23/8/11
Wasn't q4 a raven game?

edit: heh, you also are Raven.
Raven
Posted 10:12am 23/8/11
Q4 was mostly a Raven game, but people bought it because "omg it's Quake 4!". The engine was still all id.
Khel
Posted 10:24am 23/8/11
Yeah, not excited by rage at all, ids strength is not in making story-driven single player games
fpot
Posted 10:37am 23/8/11
They don't even make the best 3d engines anymore. Basically they are s***e.
Enska
Posted 10:39am 23/8/11
Yeah, not excited by rage at all, ids strength is not in making story-driven single player games


No it isn't, but I'd like to see how far they have come at it since Doom 3, and I also don't think it's such a bad thing that they try and branch out from a certain strength into many.
I'm confident they can come out with some decent sp content in their games over time, so hopefully rage is a step in the right direction and we all know practice makes perfect
ravn0s
Posted 10:44am 23/8/11
i will lol @ all of you if rage ends up being awesome.
3dee
Posted 12:24pm 23/8/11
I actually understood most of that. Woot.
3dee
Posted 12:26pm 23/8/11
It's also making me want to go and program some cool graphics s*** in C++. Haven't touched C++ in about two years.
arclore
Posted 12:40pm 23/8/11
Lol @ this game flopping.. it's f*****g awesome as you will soon see
fpot
Posted 12:46pm 23/8/11
I'll be too busy playing Deus Ex:HR to play this half-baked id s***e. They are terrible at developing games. Doom2 was literally their last good single player game. Doom 3 was so utterly terrible I can barely believe that people will lend them an ounce of faith for this Rage thing.
arclore
Posted 12:50pm 23/8/11
halfbaked s***e? They've spent, what 6 years or something on it? You're a tard. Graphically it's far superior to Deus Ex which looks about 3 years out of date.
Khel
Posted 12:52pm 23/8/11
Cos graphics is everything right?
fpot
Posted 12:54pm 23/8/11
halfbaked s***e? They've spent, what 6 years or something on it?
Yeah long development times = good games! Brb about to play Duke Nukem Forever and Gran Turismo 5!

And graphics are almost at the bottom of the pile of things I look for in a good game now. Have you played The Deus Ex:HR leak? The graphics are fine. Really the Rage screens don't really look that much better, it certaibnly doesn't look 3 years out of date anyway. The gameplay and level design are just pure genius. All the augs seem to have a use, and the ability to blend augs together to suit your playstyle coupled with the multi-faceted level design create a gaming experience that really is quite unique... apart from the original Deus Ex which is a game I still play today (and find new things in).
arclore
Posted 01:08pm 23/8/11
If iD develops something for 6 years, you know it's bound to have some good s*** in it, purely because Carmack is a pioneer. Not sure if the same can be said for these other companies.

And graphics are almost at the bottom of the pile of things I look for in a good game now. Have you played The Deus Ex:HR leak? The graphics are fine. Really the Rage screens don't really look that much better, it certaibnly doesn't look 3 years out of date anyway.


I have played it and you have to be seriously kidding me. It looks like FEAR or something. it's monotone, dark and grainy and fully of polygons.

The outdoor areas in RAGE are Next Gen. Also, you are looking at screenshots and we all know how different they are to being in-game. Ingame the new Deus Ex felt old and dated.

The gameplay and level design are just pure genius. All the augs seem to have a use, and the ability to blend augs together to suit your playstyle coupled with the multi-faceted level design create a gaming experience that really is quite unique... apart from the original Deus Ex which is a game I still play today (and find new things in).


Lets just reserve opinions of gameplay until we actually play it. It seems to me that RAGE has the same type of RPG components as Deus Ex; maybe not as full-on though.
fpot
Posted 01:15pm 23/8/11
Carmack was a pioneer when he made doom (or arguably wolf3d) 18 years ago. Since then nothing except for pretty engines and average games.

You can really stop talking to me about graphics. I don't give a s*** about them.

It will have id's attempt at RPG elements. Can't wait to see what they are.

edit: did you like Doom 3?
arclore
Posted 01:39pm 23/8/11
Doom3 was pretty good at the time of release imo. It was meant be linear and run and gun with not much else, as it was sticking to the DOOM theme. Don't know how you can hold anything against that.



last edited by arclore at 13:39:49 23/Aug/11
fpot
Posted 01:26pm 23/8/11
Because all of the monster encounters were predictable and boring, and the game was really drab and s***. And making the levels really dark and having it so you can only have your flashlight or your gun out was such an artificial way to create tension.

An example of run-and-gun done right is the Half-Life series.

arclore
Posted 01:36pm 23/8/11
All of the Deus ex games are dark as f***, not to mention monotone and grainy. It even looks like they used the same old engine for this new version.

But this isn't about Doom, it's about RAGE, which isn't dark and isn't linear. f*** Deus Ex.. RAGE ftw.
Khel
Posted 05:12pm 23/8/11
Theres "dark" as an atmospheric styling, like how Batman Begins or the Dark Knight are "dark", and the deus ex games definitely have that. But then theres Doom 3 which was just literally dark, as in, "I can't actually see anything in this world because everything is black unless I shine a flashlight at it". Thats not fun, or atmospheric, its just annoying.

And yeah, Doom 3 being linear I don't have a problem with, tonnes of games I've loved have been linear, but like fpot said it was sooooooooo boringly predictible. Open a door, oh no there was an imp behind it, after I kill it I better turn around cos another one will have spawned behind me. Or the old room that is empty the first time you come through, then something jumps out at you when you come back through it later. That sort of thing can make for an effective scare, but not when its done ALL THE TIME as in doom 3.

Id haven't really done anything in the past to give me any faith that Rage will be any better. They have a hell of a lot to prove with this game, I mean they could even make a simple, linear single player game fun and interesting, and now they're expanding to this huge open world game with all these RPG elements, it just makes me cringe.

If it turns out awesome then I'll happily eat my words and probably pick up a copy, but the only realistic opinion I can have of the game, without having played it, is that its gonna turn out s***. Its just wishful thinking to hope it wont turn out s*** when theres so much past evidence to the contrary.
arclore
Posted 06:58pm 23/8/11
You should get over Doom 3 - I mean there wasn't much happening back then with single player games anyway. It was good for what it was.

How anyone can write this game off as s*** is beyond me though. :

link

link

link

/browserrape

Even if the game play sucks, which it won't (I bet it has better AI than Deus Ex) the scenery and s*** alone is worth it. The only way this could partially flop is due to all the other huge games being released in the last quarter.

last edited by arclore at 18:58:49 23/Aug/11
Infidel
Posted 07:08pm 23/8/11
Have you ever played Deus Ex, hell I even enjoyed far cry/crysis games a lot more than any of the id games and they had better graphics to boot.
fpot
Posted 07:15pm 23/8/11
No but you see this game will be an unmitigated success due to id's excellent game track record such as
Midda
Posted 07:23pm 23/8/11
Arclore, why are you posting screenshots as evidence of good game design? That doesn't prove anything, and nobody's saying it isn't pretty to look at.
fpot
Posted 07:27pm 23/8/11
Plus, on that bottom screenshot, is that texture on the top of the big cylinder thing a blurry mess or is it just me?
arclore
Posted 07:41pm 23/8/11
You're just a bunch of elitist f***. I posted the screenies to show that a lot of effort has gone into the game and that you're writing it off. whatevs. Ya'll will play it through to the end and like it.

not sure whats up with that texture prob. id say coz it's in beta? those are probably taken from the xbox version aswell.
Eorl
Posted 10:29pm 23/8/11
Holy s*** the amount of whining and "my game is better then your game" is disgusting. Enjoy your games, each to their own, jesus christ.

Khel
Posted 11:03pm 23/8/11
I play heaps of games, I just don't play the s*** ones.

Like Rage.

Oh yeah, I went there. Again.
parabol
Posted 11:14pm 23/8/11
not sure whats up with that texture prob. id say coz it's in beta? those are probably taken from the xbox version aswell.

Unlikely since:

"Image Dimensions: 2,556px × 1,548px"
arclore
Posted 11:41pm 23/8/11
as it turns out, the middle screenie is xbox

Eorl
Posted 08:15am 24/8/11
So then Khel, you are exactly like the guy getting angry in my picture. You just can't handle opinions.
arclore
Posted 09:41am 24/8/11
I play heaps of games, I just don't play the s*** ones.

Like Rage.


Lol dude, i used take into consideration your opinion on games but after this little gem..

I think that Real Steel movie looks pretty sweet personally


I have no doubt your opinions hold about as much weight as an anorexic in zero gravity.
Enska
Posted 09:42am 24/8/11
Hahaha, you c**** fail at spotting a trolling Khelz0r
arclore
Posted 09:46am 24/8/11
trolls don't type out 4 paragraphs of s***e trying to prove a point. if so, s*** troll
kappa
Posted 10:12am 24/8/11
The smart thing to do would be to argue after the game is released.
3dee
Posted 10:28am 24/8/11
Khel has more posts than you, therefore he must be right. Right? Anyone?
Khel
Posted 10:52am 24/8/11
The smart thing to do would be to argue after the game is released.


Smart, but nowhere near as much fun
Midda
Posted 12:19pm 24/8/11
You're just a bunch of elitist f***. I posted the screenies to show that a lot of effort has gone into the game and that you're writing it off.

I never wrote it off, I just pointed out that you seem to have no idea about the difference between game design and art design. It's obvious a lot of effort has gone into the art, but that's not evidence for a good game.

Again, I'm not saying I think it's s***, and I'll probably buy it when it's out, but seriously, a game being pretty doesn't automatically make it enjoyable. You're posting screenshots (and not even gameplay screenshots) as a way of saying the game will be fun and exciting. That's pointless.
DM
Posted 12:22pm 24/8/11
Well I for one thinks Rages looks pretty excellent and welcome a new ID software FPS as they are always good.
arclore
Posted 12:25pm 24/8/11
you seem to have no idea about the difference between game design and art design.


and you don't seem to have any idea about the point I was trying to make. go back and re-read.
m3nt4l
Posted 12:40pm 24/8/11
I will wait till it's released, but so far it looks like it will be lot's of fun, at least to start with.
kos
Posted 12:46pm 24/8/11
Personally I think RAGE looks unusually good for an id single player game. Will definitely be jumping on this one to see how it goes instead of waiting like I did for Quake 4 to hit the bargain bin (and with good reason I soon found out).

I liked a lot of elements of Doom 3, the atmosphere and world/feeling of being on stranded on Mars, and the awesome Hell sequences, but I agree it was predictable and repetitive. But I don't understand how anyone can give Half Life 2 as an example of how a linear point and shoot game should be, f*** me that felt like a long, drawn out, repetitive grind to play all the way through... Perhaps you needed the nostalgia of having played and loved Half Life to really get into it?

Personally I just have my fingers crossed that the next Quake can actually manage to recapture some of the Q3 MP awesomeness.
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