yer, while i can dig that its pretty much useless voting, id be more impressed if he had some genuine ideas on how things can be fixed, rather than just telling us, s**** broken, which we all know already anyway.

he is certainly an eloquent man.

I think he justified himself well as to why he doesn't vote. Paxman trolls hard though.

wow. someone had a lot of drugs at one time and it seem they really agreed with him

he certainly has something like his heart is in the right place. lets hope he can refine it and find some good road that is more build "than" destroy,,, or should that be "then"?

I'm sure he would give away all his money if he thought that would fix anything.

Would you give away all your money if you knew it would fix anything?

Russell brand thread yo.

god particle threads over there>

A lot of people would vote for Russell Brand over a stiff in a suit.

He's like Arnold Schwarzenegger on mental steroids.

I think he explains why he's talking about the things he is, instead of defining an alternative solution, and he specifically says he's just trying to draw attention to the fact that there should be alternatives, and that he's no genius to create such a solution.

He wasn't always a millionaire, he's done the nothing to something job, and he does a great deal of charitable work in the UK.

yer, while i can dig that its pretty much useless voting, id be more impressed if he had some genuine ideas on how things can be fixed, rather than just telling us, s**** broken, which we all know already anyway.

As he said, he's just a comedian who's spreading the word. That's a start.

We had an alternative. It was called the Bolshevik Revolution. It's a cool story.

Good work dips***.

A grade human trash thats all he is and ever will be.

It's all well and good demanding a utopian world, but how about a solution on how we achieve it? Extreme taxing on corporations is the only way I can see it happening. But I guess without growth/profits companies are pointless. Unless we completely change the economic system.

I think we in aus we have it pretty good already. Work hard and you're almost guaranteed a roof over your head, food on the table and lots left over for what ever you like.

I don't know, I think he's right; the first step is making more people aware of the specifics of exactly what the current situation is. I think as a task it's a good one for him as he's in a good position to do that. I don't see why questioning the status quo should be contingent on having a solution. Good solutions often only come about through the collaboration of many parties, and increasing awareness is a great first step in motivating people who might have solutions to come forward and get involved.

I don't necessarily agree with his comments about boycotting the voting process, but I see that his stance only seems to improve the visibility of his message. I find it hard to argue against him on that point, as that's exactly what he's trying to achieve.

I think we have it really really good in Australia. Like one of the best countries in many ways in the entire world. But that doesnt mean we should be like "meh we are already good lets call it a day"The "work hard geta roof over your head" sounds ok until you realise you will never own that home or roof over your head so long as you stay working for the man. But yes you will get just enough to pay the man the rent for the roof and just that little bit more like a pub night out a sports game on the Sunday and 3 meals a day. Its not the 50's. Wage disparity is a real thing. If you think that in the 50's the boss of the business made on average 5 times the wage, every week, as the guy on the floor. These days its more like 5000 times, or more, especially if you look at corps paging a monthly wage of $36 to 3rd world folks to make whatever.The divide between have and have not is widening. The guys up the top are buying up everything at the bottom.Russell Brand said a lot of good stuff. Like i said his heart is in the right place. But yeah society is f***ed. It would take some major actions to put things back together again so that it wasn't broken and thats just for Australia. Everything from how we judge "success" what does it mean to be rich, who should get a say who deserves to be heard. Fair pay for fair work. What is enough profit. How much do we support the needy. How should we be governed. What should the ruling class look like. There is like hundreds of things that need looking at and changing and what not. I say we give plato's republic idea's a shot ie. the Hoi Phylakes guardians - if we start today we can have new better government in about 20 to 25 years ;)

You the nail bang on the head there mate although i think the worst corps in the world are paying around 500 times the average employee.

I have this conversation with americans pretty often and they just cant get their heads around the fact that the a******* at the top of the tree are taking way to big of a bite out of their respective companies. They are so sold on the bulls*** they get fed by the corporate media they think the country will die if wages go up even a fraction. I then point out how well the US isnt going well is it using that train of thought, yet places like norway and australia are pretty much kicking ass and they cant grasp it. It usually ends with me being called an obama lover or a communist.

The media here has done a hell of a job selling s*** to these people and pretty much totally destroying the middle class and without so much as a whiimper from the masses. Its disgusting.

You the nail bang on the head there mate although i think the worst corps in the world are paying around 500 times the average employee.I have this conversation with americans pretty often and they just cant get their heads around the fact that the a******* at the top of the tree are taking way to big of a bite out of their respective companies. They are so sold on the bulls*** they get fed by the corporate media they think the country will die if wages go up even a fraction. I then point out how well the US isnt going well is it using that train of thought, yet places like norway and australia are pretty much kicking ass and they cant grasp it. It usually ends with me being called an obama lover or a communist.The media here has done a hell of a job selling s*** to these people and pretty much totally destroying the middle class and without so much as a whiimper from the masses. Its disgusting.

Land of the free become imprisoned by dept and consumerism driven by corporate greed. Now that I think about it how different do we have it in Australian? Seems like voting is a joke and if nutjobs like clive palmer can see that voting with a pencil that can easily be erased and re recorded then I guess we are all guilty of being stupid in the belief that we have free will and rights in this country. SO much dodgety s*** has gone down in the last century it makes me ashamed that the human race is bound by greed and power over others.

/sipps beer and contemplates

I love the word democracy., LOVE IT!!

I have it tattooed on my a*******.

todays date.

You're a pissa.

trog all someone has to do in the US to squash talk of equity in this country is lable those calling for it communists and everyone instantly freaks out and says its a bad idea. Its kid of like those people that label someone a racist for being critical of anything obama does. Its like some magic card that wins every debate on the topic.

This place to some degree still has its ideas firmly planted in the 1950's where you couldnt be tarred with a worse brush than being a commy while the middle class is being plundered for everything its worth. Because of that 50's attitude the general public here is just taking in the ass and doing and saying nothing about it. Its f*****g mind boggling.

A long way to getting past that scarcity based economy is if those who have "way too much" suddenly decide that "a fair amount " is suddenly a good idea.

But so long as we still have the idea that having s*** loads more then anyone else is something to be proud of and something to chase after that will never happen. You need to change attitudes not only at the top or from the ground up but also in the middle. This whole middle class aspirations to get to "the top" is what keeps the wheel rolling just as much as the old cliche of the lower class poor guy spending on smokes and booze and the same one with the fat cats not giving a s***

tho in australia no one seems to know what "class" they are. You get families on 200k swearing they are just middle class and people just above the poverty line also calling themselves middle class.

Like that annoying person at a dinner party who says after you spill red wine on yourself "Somebody get a cloth!!". yeah thanks f***head.

well f*** man next dinner party you can go get your own darn cloth

Michael Moore has even directly said at the end of one of his film directly (forgot which one) that none of what he talks about is hidden away or some secret. But thats the point. He goes on to say that while things are f***ed the people taking advantage of the situation are not concerned that anyone knows or that he is making films about it because the biggest thing the folks in power or taking advantage of how s*** is f***ed would worry about one thing. That is folks getting up off the couch and actually doing something about it. And that is not going to happen

But its why he makes his films - its the only real thing he can do to inspire people to do anything. More power to the guy

I hear that it's trendy to hate on Michael Moore, so I expect a bandwagon to form any minute now.

Is your hole in the "o" or the "a"? I wonder is baz is a real person or a spambot? Trog you should have Captcha on this forum for bots like baz.Russell Brandt reminds me a lot of Michael Moore. He states the bleeding obvious and then goes on to misrepresent it to tout his own agenda. Like that annoying person at a dinner party who says after you spill red wine on yourself "Somebody get a cloth!!". yeah thanks f***head.

Yeah thanks f***head.

it's perfectly relevant, the Bolshevik Revolution touted Marxist Communism as the Utopian solution to all woes and ended up killing more people than any other political revolution in the history of man. Utopian dreams inevitably lead to government power and then mass killings. After the Bolshevik revolution, Russia moved toward democracy accepting that Communism had failed.

Well, that's my point - almost every other example of revolution in civilised society leads to democracy. It's a rare case where it leads to communism (and eventually, the revolution comes around again because it inevitably fails because the problems of wealth distribution aren't solved in an imperfect communist society, which basically all of them are in practice).

The French Revolution resulted in a move towards democracy and they have not turned back. So thanks for proving my point trog ;)

If you can find a more socialist democracy, let me know :)

I don't think he rejected democracy, he rejected democracy with the current political and power structures in place - which can be pretty solidly argued have been static and under serving of much of the population for a long time. Note his references to Oxford and Eton, the political elite all come from the same group of people. It strikes me that's his point. Which makes sense, even on here there's been discussion about the need for more parties, or even a 3rd party, as good alternative options to the current ones.

It's really a discussion about the supposed ruling class that is in control now (and has been since the post WW2 era); which isn't really all that different to the ruling classes that were overthrown in the French, or other, revolutions. I would raise the idea that, architecturally, we're in the exact same kind of structural class system as before. It's just been updated for the 20th century - in developed countries the proletariat now has plentiful alcohol, booze, reality TV shows and highly influential media to keep them in check. The supposed middle class are also a kind of proletariat with a different set of controls and the delusion that they have freedom of choice and input (read: voting), to keep them in check. I think it's been well discussed academically (I'll have to do some searching to find sources), the notion of how the basic benefits for the people in developed countries have increased steadily really only as a means to keep them happy and participating in the system.

The proletariat now is immensely better off then they were in the early centuries, but do they have any more real control or input?

That's his core point, and he believes the gaps are widening, the ruling class is becoming more incompetent, and a revolution is potentially brewing. America is actually a great example, with their unbelievable wealth disparity and poverty for a 1st world country. A long with their democracy-paralyzing interest parties and corruption.

I would argue that we need to move to some kind of more widely socially beneficial democracy/capitalism hybrid that makes it more balanced, but of course not completely equal, and promotes sustainability and fosters our communities.

Perhaps it's the emphathic civilisation that's been theorised previously, see these vids from RSA Animate:

The Empathic Civilisation


21st Century Enlightenment


And that's not to mention the very real reality that we, the 1st world or developed countries, are enjoying our ways of lifee at the expense of the planet, and the exploitation of much of the 2nd and 3rd world - who make up most of the population.

Yeah but the point is the elections make no difference, the parties are all pretty similar, and they all serve the same corporate or special interests behind them. You vote for a different party, nothing really changes. It's here that the lines to conspiracy theory start to become blurred, whether its the very real possibility of special interest and elite power groups serving the corporate need, or mad Illuminati conspiracies.

I agree with Trog that Utopia isn't possible, I do think the potential hybrid I've mentioned and that the RSA Animate series talk about, that is just more reasonably balanced (not a communist/socialist/hippie/whatever camp, which is the common strawman argument employed against this notion) is very possible.

In that hybrid rusty himself could charge similar fees; I think you could shave off the extreme top-end of the scale (wheres that American wealth graph?) and make a huge difference. We have enough privately owned wealth in the word to end world poverty several times over, and all that jazz.

Here we go, sure you've all seen this, still mind blowing.

Wealth Inequality in America

People can be spiritual if it pleases them. I bet for some people it is really healthy. The exact moment I knew Dawkins was a d*** was when he said spirituality is inherently bad.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say most of us are naturally spirited. When you say consciousness you mean some sort of mind over matter thing right?

A Diva is a female version of a hustler, of a of a hustler.

People can be spiritual if it pleases them. I bet for some people it is really healthy. The exact moment I knew Dawkins was a d*** was when he said spirituality is inherently bad.

What does "being spiritual" mean though? It is a broad phrase (so broad it's almost meaningless). In my experience it means "I like to use vague wishy washy thinking to justify my desire to not apply critical thinking to everything I do", in which case I'd be inclined to agree with Dawkins.

Maybe there is some subset of spirituality that can be better defined that wouldn't irritate me so much.

Why are we talking about that anyway?

I don't know of one major democracy that doesn't have progressive taxation - so they are all socialist democracies.

Yep, but it's not a binary scale, it is a sliding scale. What I got from Brand was he wants to simply change the scale.

Russell Brand was rejecting democracy (so he would hardly advocate a Revolution towards democracy), although he failed to cite any viable alternative. That's about as handy as having a Doctor tell you you are sick.

I didn't really watch the whole thing so maybe I missed part of it, but i never got the impression he was rejecting democracy at all.

I think if US tax levels went back to historical levels (especially when they were at war) there would not have been a lot at all for him to talk about, so maybe he's a one-trick pony in that regard.

hey baz from what you are saying you would like that new ABC show about exercising your brain - its all about brain plasticity. If you havent already been watching the show:

See Australian television personality Todd Sampson put brain training to the test as he undergoes a radical brain makeover in a three-part documentary series on the revolutionary new science of brain plasticity. The cutting edge science has found that anyone can become smarter, improve their memory and reverse mental ageing with the right brain training. It can turn an ordinary brain into a super brain in just three months. The fastest growing science on the planet, brain plasticity will revolutionize how we live in the future.

ive only seen the 1st ep but it seems like it covers some interesting ground

lol "spiritual" = "crystals and new age remedies"

You don't happen to hang out in west end with people who like to talk about their angel spirit guides?

lol "spiritual" = "crystals and new age remedies"You don't happen to hang out in west end with people who like to talk about their angel spirit guides?

ahh, but those are solid state crystals, they create a much nicer arguement

lol "spiritual" = "crystals and new age remedies"

I know you're still smarting from that beating you took about being a dumb as s*** audiophile, but you should probably try reading whole sentences before typing out your zinger replies. I said nothing really specific for a reason. Spirituality means a whole bunch of things - people who are into new age healing methods are just one particular example I used.

It's because you obviously have your tail up about it. There was nothing vague about what I said, it's just you're a little dense and have a bit of trouble understanding stuff. Maybe try reading things twice before you reply, you might do a bit better that way. It's quite embarrassing for you to say you are calling people out on things when really you just didn't comprehend it properly.

I am accepting of anything that people do to themselves that makes them feel good and has no negative effects on other people. On a personal level I am dismissive of just about anything described as spiritual and especially of new age healing. That doesn't mean I hate it or resent people for using it, I just know it doesn't work so won't bother wasting my time with it.

now you mention it i have never seen you post up an opinion?

sure you post up things like which GPU is better based of stats or benchmarks or what car is better because it has some bit of hardware installed or can go so fast or whatever but never have i seen an actual human opinion from you on something that doesn't rely on stats someone else has already put up on the web

I guess it must be nice living in such a clear cut black and white world where you are not burdened by those,,, human issues. All those pesky grey area's that you are completely oblivious to. The humanities the social sciences, spiritualism. You know all those things that are still just theories. All those complex and difficult issues where you have to form an opinion based on faith, best guess and incomplete evidence.

It must be nice having the personality of a human search engine and not have to worry about actually risking someone on the net having a different opinion to your safely searched and stat backed up statements

And while a cardboard cut out of your avatar image would have all the personality you possess we do, after all, need simple people just like you too

fpot



http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811909000044

I believe its a fairly commonly known fact that people who meditate have significantly larger pre-frontal cortex'.

Heres a video that might clarify some of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmEo6RI4Wvs

EDIT: I linked the wrong vid earlier.

Nope, that's dumb.

I would really appreciate if you could refrain from being derogatory, I'm trying to have a discussion, and it is unnecessary.

Where does true creativity come from? I'm not talking about art, music or entertainment, but scientific creativity. The stuff that happens to inventors and scientists when they have an epiphany and make a ground breaking discovery that changes the whole landscape of our world. It dosnt come from thinking about a problem until you figure it out. Scientific creativity comes from a lack of thought. I see the definition of critical thinking in Wiki incorporates creativity, but I from what I understand creativity and critical thinking are separate.


http://www.bygeorgejournal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/einstein_creativity.jpg

I would really appreciate if you could refrain from being derogatory, I'm trying to have a discussion, and it is unnecessary.

I actually thought that was, for fpot, remarkably restrained (but perhaps still somewhat inappropriate).

However, I will add that you cannot invoke a scientific study to support an argument that critical thinking is an obstacle to our progress.

Anyway, we can have a conversation about that another day; lets try to get back to Brand's comments on ZE DEMOCRAZIEZ

I went to his stand up tour currently in progress

somehow a man who has eight minutes of material about arse-licking isn't my go-to guy on political matters, but he's surprisingly eloquent about it anyway

Peter Hitchins gives his own insights into the failure of the Political system in Britain.

They've brought in a form of internet filtering in the UK (which I still find flabbergasting).

Prime Minister David Cameron has announced that UK internet service providers (ISPs) will be putting pornography filters on domestic internet connections.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23403068

Australia has tried to do it a couple of times.

Well - thats quite discombobulating.

i see he is successfully channeling a keanu haircut from 1999

he kind of lost me as soon as he stopped agreeing with Russel and started on about smaller government.

Did he mean this idea of "small government"? We already know that is just rhetoric. We know our Liberal friends go on about "small government" but then try to tell people who they can and cannot marry (the whole gay marriage thing atm) which is a huge impact on civil liberties - its a really big thing for a supposed "small government"

does he really think if we take away the governments ability to make big changes: like implement mining taxes, carbon taxes, set minimum wages, dictate how many sick days people are entitled to and how much tax the rich middle and poor should pay (and the list goes on and on) that corporations are just "going to do the right thing"?

In countries where governments are not strong do corporations do the right thing? Especially foreign corporations?

Money

People and money.

Whats wrong with this setup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagelin

Fgot - the founder of micro masturbation, shocks the world with his knowledge of bedfellows.

For the politically interested, these are some good responses to Brand's suggested ideas:

Dear Russell, choosing to vote is the most British kind of revolution there is.

Russell Brand: Good Pundit, Bad Thinker.

Nah Russell Brand is just a spoilt kid and someone gave him a microphone.

i've seen enough of his talk show/comedy show/whatever you call that to have the opinion that he's basically quacky enough that masses find him interesting because he's eccentric and he's used it to be some kind of walking talking advertising guy. he can hold a crowds attention for longer than usual because of that weird nihilism about him that's engaging and you just can't seem to look away from. the most interesting thing about him is his hot popstar girlfriend :)

dave grohl has a similar eccentric creative flare and personality. it's nihilism and it works because it challenges the status quo for change and innovation which is similar to the relationship that a democratic population has with their government

steve jobs was a well balanced nihilist





and so the last time a nihilist what a 'good politician' was probably Hitler.... and i don't reckon the Polish or the Jews would have very fond memories of mein furore oke?

The drug reference is a cop out and you know it.

Comedians are generally very smart, if not they are too smart. Not like herr derr I spent 15 years at skool working out how to make a software that sells milliuns of units, but actually intelligent to the point that "normal" human beings pay comedians to insult the s*** out of them....... whilst they larf at it...... and they get paid for it.

This took me 5 seconds to google.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/56107/10-best-political-comedians-of-all-time



Karl Pilkington would make an excellent politician as well. lol.. lol.... haha.

how about that dribbling gronk they let on channel 31 at some messed up hour

that homo talks so much trash i'm surprised he doesn't have a fulltime job at a dump

I believe wit is a huge indicator of intellect. Having the ability to react instinctively and immediately with a witty comment demonstrates a mental aptitude that very few of us have. Also laughing is involuntary by the way, nobody is conditioned to laugh at something they find funny. Thats like saying that people are conditioned to scream when they stick their hand in a fire or that people are conditioned to circulate their blood. There are some fundamentally universal rules to make a "wise crack" and being able to apply them to a situation in an instant is a gift. Finally wit has nothing to do with standup comedy. Wit involves interaction or interplay with another person and stand up is just a prepared show performed to an audience.

Theres probably a big difference between Russell's ability to understand complex social and political systems and his inclination to do so. I would guess he could understand complex social and political systems but he hasn't donated much time into it, yet. Anybody could understand complex social and political systems really but not everyone can be witty. Thats not something you can read in a textbook, wouldn't you agree? Needless to say humor is a very powerful tool for getting attention and I applaud his efforts to bring attention to these issues. Good on him.

Good grief. Are you f***en serious.

Comedians are generally very smart, if not they are too smart. Not like herr derr I spent 15 years at skool school working out how to make a software that sells milliuns of units, but actually intelligent to the point that "normal" human beings pay comedians to insult the s*** out of them....... whilst they larf laugh at it...... and they get paid for it.

They're against you baz. You can tell by how petty they have become.

Clench your anus. HNNNNGG.

Its amazing how many comedians have political material.
I think the only ones who dont are Bobcat Goldthwait, Charlie Chaplin and the dudes that do Puppetry of the penis

u having a larf baz? Im not sure about the penis people but charlie chaplin was hugely political in his time via his style and works:

parodying the nazi's



on beating on the immigrant (refugee)



he was on the side of the "people" and opposed any power of oppression of the people. A very clever guy

Also laughing is involuntary by the way, nobody is conditioned to laugh at something they find funny

yer, i dunno, i see a lot of people rock up to sub standard stand up comedians and proceed to laugh the nite away to s*** that just isnt funny.